翻譯-李安談伯格曼《處女之泉》 - 電影

今年2018年正是瑞典導演英格瑪·柏格曼的百歲冥誕，前幾天才知道原來有這一回事

沒有想到台灣竟然有一系列的影展，但很多事情所以無法去看 QQ

為了要紀念這位導演，前幾天也看到李安得獎的消息，

我想就翻譯這個訪問李安的短片，來紀念這兩位導演好了。

這部影片是李安受到 Criterion Collection 採訪，收錄於他們出版的《處女之泉》DVD

主要談李安初次接觸伯格曼電影的感想，

建議影片文字兩者都看，我也會貼出影片所出現的畫面來供閱讀文字者想像空間。

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfUzWn_R7jE

https://i.imgur.com/QWPtMZf.jpg



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First time I saw the Virgin Spring I was 18, in fact that was the first I
consciously watch any art film at all can imagine that impact on me. It was a
1974 I believe, I was first year into the academy of art, and there I was,
people started to organize screenings in film clubs. It was just happening
and those films were got into Taiwan almost by mistake, nobody knows why the
Virgin Spring was there and I sit there for one time and I was perplexed, I
was dumbfounded and I was electrified and I refused to leave the screening
room and I watched it again.


我第一次看《處女之泉》是在我18歲的時候，事實上那是我第一次意識到：觀賞任何想得
到的藝術片會如此影響我。我相信那時是1974年，我還是藝術大學的大一生，我就在那時
，人們開始準備在電影社放映電影。巧妙的事俏俏地發生了，那些電影來到台灣似乎全然
是個意外，沒有人知道為什麼《處女之泉》會在那裏。有次我坐在那裡，隨後我感到困惑
、感到驚呆，我也感到驚奇，我拒絕離開放映室，然後我看了第二次。


https://i.imgur.com/1zMlihs.png



Life changed afterward, I couldn’t say a word afterwards, I’ve never had
never in my 18 years of life seeing so quiet, so serene and yet so violent
and so fundamentally questioning,” God, where you are?”. The complex
conflict, inner and outer conflict, men and nature, the mundane, nature human
being and also the need of understanding it through god.

自此之後，我的生命改變了，也說不出任何一個字，在我這18年的生命中從來沒有看到如
此寧靜、如此安詳，但也如此暴力，打從心底詢問：「上帝啊，您在何處？」。那複雜的
衝突，內在與外在的衝突，人與大自然，那平凡、自然的人類，還有通過上帝來理解的需
要。


https://i.imgur.com/vebKKpz.png


I say grandness, yet it’s so natural and small, it’s like a microscope into
humanity that was able to zoom into it into a world that’s totally new to
eighteen years of me and I was beginning to search for it, and I am still in
the middle of that journey. Before that point of my life, I’ve been watching
regular movies, they don’t give you a quiet moment, and they keep pushing
the character developments in the story itself, so you don’t get bored. I don
’t think they have the confidence in the fame, filmmaker’s world that they
created, but this movie was exceptional for me, so it’s the first time I got
a taste of living in the world the filmmakers want me to be in.

我會說是莊嚴感，但它如此自然和渺小，它就像用顯微鏡來透視人性，能夠深入這世間，
所帶來的全新視野對我這18年是很新奇的，我也開始去尋找它，而我還在那尋求之旅的中
間。在此之前的我，都只會看普通的電影，它們不會給你寧靜的場合，它們會照故事本身
，一直推進角色的心路歷程，所以你不會感到無趣。我想他們不會有十足的信心，以製片
人之名所創造的世界，但這電影對我來說是例外，這是我第一次體會到深入製片人所想要
我進入的世界。


https://i.imgur.com/HGmcnQ2.png


There is things you just watch, there have scenes stand out like too violent
scenes. One is the raping scene and the murder scene, the other is the father
killing the bastard. Those are really realistic, disturbing and violence to
me, especially in the religious serene texture that was very shocking and
disturbing to me for a very long time. It’s another shot is to keep hunting
me which I use quite a bit in my movie, it becomes a habit, it’s when the
father kneels down and asked God why.


裡面有很多東西你就只是看而已，也有非常突出的場景，像那極度暴力的場景。其中是強
暴的場景與謀殺的場景，另外一個就是父親殺死那個混帳。這些對我來說都是非常的真實
、不舒服的，還有暴力，特別是在這有祥和的宗教信仰調性裡，這讓我很長的時間裡感到
非常的驚愕與不舒服。有個鏡頭也令我難以忘懷，我拿來運用於我的電影，成為了一種習
慣，就是當父親跪下，並詢問上帝為什麼。


Usually in this yearning, questionary, soulful performance, you will always
put the camera in front of him, and in a kind of high angle looking up, it
was peculiar I know is that the camera was way back behind the father and
that really strikes me as something that’s so mysterious and contemplative,
until this days occasionally I put camera behind actor when he’s thinking
about something fundamentally important, when somebody’s in a contently
mood. I’ll just I could not help myself to imitate that shot the biggest
performer to me was Bergman himself the filmmakers, that was the very first
experience I noticed the author the person that is doing performance for you
on screen with his camera.

通常在這迷茫、疑惑、真誠的演出，你會理所當然的把攝影機放在他的正面，他高角度
的往上望去，我知道這裡很奇特的是攝影機是位於父親的背後遠處，有股莫名的神秘感與
深思感，直到今天我有時候會把攝影機放在演員的後面，在他們深思一些打從心底的重要
事情，或當他們處於一個滿意的心情。我會不自覺地模仿那種鏡頭。對我來說最突出的表
演者是身為製片人本身的伯格曼，這是我第一次體會到何謂作者，那位使用他的攝影機在
畫面上向你表演。


https://i.imgur.com/fCkr3l8.png


That was my very first experience, my virgin spring so to speak. Essentially
it was about human conditions. Its relation with fate, with nature, with each
other and with the good and evil coexist in our heart, and where is the
answer? And obviously we’ve got to keep making movie because there is no
answer, there’s only good question. I think that vision and the cinematic
power is what you called Auteur, and he is one of the important one. I could
almost say that the Scandinavian dramatist were the fathers of modern drama,
they are both very influential on stage and on film and somehow I think in
the northern lights in the desolation in the cold, people get very spiritual,
they get very fundamental and the work form them, strikingly pure and complex
and fundamental.

這是我首次體驗，也就是我看《處女之泉》。基本上這是關於人的事宜。他與命運的關係
，還有跟大自然、其他人、還有跟善惡同時存在你心理有關係，這哪裡會有答案嗎？當然
，我們必須繼續拍攝電影，因為並不會有答案，只會有好的問題。我認為那眼光還有那電
影能力，就是稱為電影作者論，他就是其中一位重要的人物。幾乎可以說斯堪地納維亞的
戲劇家是現代戲劇之父，他們兩位同時在舞台與電影上有深遠的影響力，而我認為在那北
極光下、在那荒涼、寒冷下，人們變得非常靈性，他們變得很純粹，還有那些來自他們的
作品，極度的純潔、複雜與純粹。


https://i.imgur.com/eucA8bI.png


I think Bergman take that heritage and he was one of the first one to put on
cinema that sprit, I think he’s the one people start to look at cinema at
something very serious, but I think watching that movie makes me a different
filmmaker, I would say quality filmmaker. Hadn’t I watch this movie and some
of the greatest artistic movies, I will settle for good storytelling, I’ll
settle to make people laugh and cry but probably not to make them feel and
think, thinking something I think fundamentally important for our existence,
I think that was the number one movie for me at the very beginning and very
high standard, so I have to thank him for that I think I cannot get lazy, no
matter how I get or not successful. That movie did it for me.

我覺得柏格曼傳承那精神遺志，他也是第一位把那精神運用在電影裡面，我認為他是第一
位會把電影如此嚴肅看待，也認為看了那部電影讓我變成不一樣的製片人，我會說優質的
製片人。如果我沒有看這部電影，或者是其他偉大的藝術電影，我會著重良好的敘述步調
，我會偏向使人發笑與感動哭泣，但會許不會讓他們感受或思考，思考對於我們的存在一
些根本上重要的事，我認為那部電影在年輕的我來說，是心中的第一名，也是很高的標竿
，所以我必須感謝他，讓我覺得不論成功或是失敗，都不能怠惰。那部電影如此告訴我。


https://i.imgur.com/JbboteO.png


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最後補充一下影片裡提到的Auteur(電影作者論)，

電影在目前認定的八大藝術當中是最特別的一個，因為他需要非常大量的人力來共同完成

那一個電影的作者到底是誰？是導演？演員？編劇？還是掌鏡的攝影大哥？

這其中有很多的爭論，但普遍來說導演最能夠代表一部電影

許多現代電影會有很明顯的導演風格，

像是法國高達，義大利的安東尼奧尼，美國的希區考克

在這裡，李安也覺得伯格曼的電影也符合此特質。




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